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About selections
Hi,
Animation Paper is looking very promising so far, but are there plans to add a dedicated selection tool? I've found this sort of utility to be one of the biggest advantages to working digitally.
Right now, the cutter tool is the closest approximation I can find, but there doesn't seem to be a way to alter a selection after it's been made.
Thanks for your question/comment, Cloudy!
Yeah, the cutter and lasso tools are sort of similar to a traditional selection tool, but not quite. In AP it is meant to be a fast pick up of a drawing (or part of a drawing) by lassoing the part you need to manipulate. Once you have it picked up, you can scale and rotate it and so on. When ready, you stamp it down again. As I see it this is fast and effective and sort of skips a few steps that you would normally have to go through (of course running the risk of someone, like you, in need of one of the missing steps).
So you are asking about "altering a selection"? Just to be sure - do you mean adding or removing a part to the lassoed area? If so, that's not possible with how we've done the functionality so far. Would you mind explaining what exactly your process would be? I mean, step by step, what is it you wanted to do (ideally)?
It is super interesting for me to listen to these kinds of use-cases. I might learn something 🙂 Also this helps shape AP and make it better for everybody. Thanks - much appreciated!
Best,
Niels
Hi Niels, thanks for the response; the interest is very encouraging.
I'd use selections the same way as in any other program: creating the initial outline, then using modifier keys to add or remove parts, gradually sculpting it to encompass the exact area(s) of an image I want to modify.
Then I could perform one of many possible actions like drawing or erasing within the boundaries, copy-pasting or cut-and-pasting, or summoning a (hypothetical) transform tool to move / rotate / scale its contents.
Krita is a fairly standard example of this workflow, though Gimp is the absolute king of selection manipulation.
Now, if it is conceivable that this sort of functionality might be worked in at some point, I want to stress a crucial point, that being the clear distinction between selection-related actions and other operations.
The programs mentioned above follow this principle: they have a Select tool, and a Transform tool, with the Undo stack tracking each operation of both tools.
In contrast, other programs like OpenToonz and Toon Boom Harmony will display a transformation box the instant any selection is made.
There are hotkeys for adding or (in Harmony) removing from a selection, but the transform controls will regularly get in the way, resulting in accidental transformations. The reverse (accidentally selecting instead of transforming) will also occur frequently in these programs, mostly because the box manipulators are very small and easy to miss. And none of the selection operations are tracked in the Undo stack.
Rather wordy, I realise, and perhaps unnecessary if selection tools aren't on the roadmap; but in short, Krita and Gimp have just about perfected the workflow of selection and transformation. If these features are ever on the table, I'd look to those programs for guidance, especially Gimp.
Thanks for all your efforts!
Thank you so much for explaining this in details! Very much appreciated!
I agree, your points are super relevant and valid. We have discussed exactly this topic since the beginning of development of Animation Paper, because it is central in a lot of ways. It is a dilemma, because some animators like to pick up and move/scale/rotate/flip the fast and direct way - as we've done it so far, - but others, like yourself, miss the possibilities of the more elaborate way of working with selections. I totally get it.
Anyway, all is noted. These kinds of issues are always on the table. It is not too late to change anything. Adding an alternative method of working is of course also a great possibility too (to have both methods available). As long as we don't clutter everything up with too much choice and noisy functionality - as we also always will keep in mind! 🙂
We are not going to change or add anything we didn't plan for in this coming release (v5.0), however we'll keep this in mind for the next few releases.
BTW: I used to work using Gimp for years (and loved it) - I'd better get back to studying it. 😉
Thanks again,
Niels
I'm very glad that it's under consideration.
The simplest way to animate (arguably) is just with pencil and paper. Software raises the baseline required knowledge and set-up, but once the basics have been acquired, animating still becomes easier than doing things traditionally.
Selections and transformations having been, for decades, so ubiquitous and similar across image and video software, I've never thought of them as much of a hill to climb when learning a new program.
And as I said earlier, I'd personally rank them among the greatest benefits of the digital workflow, along with Undo and Redo operations.
Cheers!
I agree. Just a few features naturally part of the digital workflow are what does it.
I am curious, if you try to see past the missing selection part and you just want to quickly pick something up and reposition it - how do you like the present functionality?
The cutter tool is perfectly fine for moving part of the image. I will say the green box is a little hard to see, especially on the checkered grey background, and it does have the Toon Boom problem of disappearing if I click outside its boundaries. At least AP has the "Get latest Floating Selection Back" command.
One of the things I like about transformations in Krita and Gimp is that clicking and dragging anywhere outside the transform box triggers a rotation.
I see. Thanks.
Yeah, it "disappears", because in this flow you have stamped it on to the paper and therefore is finished with it. I'm sure there's also an element of getting used to the different ways different software are thought out. Still, I know and appreciate, that we are talking about how to make AP better. And I am grateful for that.
You are right, the green interface sure is hard to see on the dark grey or dark checkered backgrounds. We'll fix that. For now, I can recommend the light version of the checkered background.
It's impressive how long this software's been in development; your commitment is admirable, and I'm excited to see where it leads in future versions!
Thanks Cloudy - thanks for your support!
Yeah, it's been a long time!! Lot's of ups and downs. But we've kept at it. And we'll continue... 🙂